BlazeTV's Allie Beth Stuckey sat down with New York Times columnist David French in a rare, candid debate about the concept of "toxic empathy," which Stuckey wrote about in her book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion."

'You are using the title of my book, and you called me the foremost architect of this concept of toxic empathy.'

Stuckey confronted French's mischaracterization of her views on empathy in his NYT op-eds, in which he argued that some Christians who align with President Donald Trump have waged a war on empathy.

"My issue is, really, we don't have enough empathy, that empathy needs to be more holistic," French said.

"In my view, one of our big problems is not enough empathy and, particularly amongst very partisan people, very selective empathy, so that 'only my ally's experience really matters,'" he continued.

French called it a "cultural phenomenon," particularly among parts of "MAGA Christianity," to dismiss empathy for human suffering as "toxic." He claimed instead that it is "incomplete" or "selective" empathy.

Stuckey contended that "selective empathy" that leads to "immoral decisions is a form of toxic empathy." She continued to press French on his articles.

"I tell both sides of the story. ... I'm actually doing what you say needs to be done, which is expanding compassion, but I don't end there. Because I think you would agree, we don't get anywhere if both sides are just saying, 'Well, my story's sadder. No, my story's sadder,'" Stuckey stated.

She argued that ending there "actually paralyzes you from making a good moral decision." She instead called for Christians to be thoughtful and consider both sides of the story, giving the example of illegal immigrants and victims like Laken Riley, a 22-year-old college student who was murdered by a foreign national who was in the U.S. illegally.

"We have to ask discerning questions: What is biblically true? What's morally true? What's politically true, logically true, historically true?" she added.

RELATED: David French catches flak for claiming Talarico, a pro-abortion Democrat, 'acts like a Christian'

David French. William B. Plowman/NBC

During the exchange, Stuckey noted areas of apparent agreement, stating, "It doesn't really sound like you disagree with me here, but it did sound like you did in the articles."

"In 2025, you said, for example, 'If people respond to the foreign aid shutdown and the stop-work orders by talking about how children might suffer and die, then they're exhibiting toxic empathy,'" Stuckey said. "That's not what I say toxic empathy is."

"Well, it's absolutely what I see a lot in the public discussion," French responded.

"You are using the title of my book, and you called me the foremost architect of this concept of toxic empathy. But I don't say that toxic empathy is someone caring about children dying, and that's how you describe it in the article," Stuckey remarked.

"I'm not putting this all on you," French said. "One of the sad things that has occurred is this global, larger attack and talk about empathy has led to an immediate response when you talk about human suffering. I will see many Christians say, 'That's toxic empathy.'"

RELATED: Pro-life support plummets among churchgoers despite faith resurgence

Allie Beth Stuckey, David French. Image source: BlazeTV

During the interview, the two also discussed gender, abortion, French's defense of voting for Vice President Kamala Harris (D) in the 2024 presidential election, and his support for Texas state Rep. James Talarico (D) in the upcoming Texas Senate election against either incumbent Sen. John Cornyn (R) or Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R).

As part of his argument for voting for Harris over President Donald Trump, French cited the abortion rates under Trump's administration compared to those under former President Barack Obama.

French, who considers himself pro-life, told Stuckey, "The largest drop in abortions actually occurred during the eight years of the Obama administration." While he admitted that the rise in abortion rates under Trump is the result of multiple factors, he argued that the Republican president perpetuates a problematic culture of "libertinism" that "is incompatible with a pro-life ethic."

"Complex social phenomena typically don't have singular causes. ... We've been dealing with some culture changes that I think are really negative. ... America is a lot more libertine, and Donald Trump is a very libertine man. He does what he wants," French said.

Megan Basham, a journalist for the Daily Wire, reacted to Stuckey's interview with French, criticizing the columnist for his abortion-rate argument.

"Oh my gosh, that is such a ridiculous response. French had said something similar about Obama. He said that the abortion rate went down under Obama because Obama gave people hope. Absolutely idiotic. The truth was, red states enacted more restrictions under Obama and that what was what was bringing the abortion rate down. And French is too smart not to know that," Basham wrote. "So what does that make him?"

Kylee Griswold, the managing editor for the Federalist, added, "Additionally, abortion #s under Trump 2 can't be divorced from the Biden-Harris administration removing the in-person dispensing requirements for mifepristone — which is how most abortions are performed. An egregious move that puts women at SERIOUS risk and also causes abortion in red states to SKYROCKET."

In a separate post, Mollie Hemingway, the editor in chief of the Federalist, wrote, "David French struggles and faceplants with his attempt to justify to @conservmillen why he endorsed Kamala Harris, given her lengthy track record of persecuting prolife Christians and journalists."

Not the Bee commended Stuckey for the debate.

"I love your way of confronting men like French. I'd say in this case, it would have made sense to bring up the fact that if you follow his logic, speaking to somebody about the Gospel could be equated to telling them an unkind truth. They are sinners. They are incapable of saving themselves, and they need Jesus. That's not 'kind.' But it's necessary. If you avoid unkind truths, you will never share the Gospel," Not the Bee wrote.

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