Report: In leaked audio, former NIH director Francis Collins laughs off threatening vaccine refusers with unemployment, blames Trump — not Biden — for COVID-19 deaths



Former National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins reportedly laughed off forcing people to get vaccinations under the threat of job loss and disparaged former President Trump for his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in a private event at the University of Chicago late last year, according to leaked audio obtained by the Daily Wire.

Collins, also a newly appointed science adviser to President Biden as of Feb. 17, has in the past maintained that he and his subordinate, Dr. Anthony Fauci, are "not political figures." But according to the Daily Wire, in the Oct. 26 speaking event, Collins put that claim in question, as he strayed far away from medical discussion to offer his opinion on a series of political topics.

The event was hosted by the director of public theology at Christianity Today, Russell Moore — reportedly a friend of Collins' — and put on by the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics, founded and led by senior adviser to former President Obama David Axelrod.

What did he say?

"The U.S. government does have the authority to mandate vaccinations if there is an outbreak that is threatening people, because it’s not just about you, it’s about the people you’re going to infect," Collins claimed at one point in the discussion.

"Do [mandates] convince people who otherwise wouldn’t get them?” he then asked rhetorically, before answering, "Oh yeah, especially if it means losing your job."

The former NIH director then recalled how such a threat at the institute garnered a "big response," adding that even the "pretty darn resistant" decided to get vaccinated in the face of "being fired."

He reportedly chuckled while asserting, "You get the feeling that their resistance was not maybe quite that deeply seated" as he speculated that many vaccine-resistant individuals choose not to get the shot over peer pressure.

"They’re sort of thinking to themselves, you know, maybe I really should do it, but if I do, I lose my credibility with my peeps," Collins said.

Moore reportedly recounted during the event that he invited Collins to explain efforts they have made "separately and together to deal with evangelical resistance to the vaccine with COVID and some of the controversies we’ve had over masking and government mandates."

Both remarked at one point that they were enjoying the chance to speak freely since the event was not being formally recorded, the Daily Wire noted.

What else?

Elsewhere in the conversation, Collins blamed Trump while sparing himself and President Biden for the dramatic loss of life that has occurred as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Collins also criticized Trump for shifting blame to him and Fauci, consequently damaging their reputations. Yet the public health expert failed to take responsibility for his and Fauci's mismanagement of the pandemic through widespread lockdowns and silencing of any opposing viewpoints — not to mention his past support of controversial gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

"Great harm was done to the people in this nation by a very, very self-involved and misguided president in the previous administration. Hundreds of thousands of people have died who should not have had to do so," Collins said, adding, "And so there was an effort to try to distract from that dreadful circumstance by finding somebody else to blame.”

Collins, a confessing Christian, also defended his support of NIH-funded experiments that involved harvesting body parts from full-term babies and grafting infant scalps onto lab rats. The health expert reportedly did not say whether or not he opposes abortion, only that he is "troubled" by it, and added that fetal tissue can be very valuable for scientific research.

"Fetal tissue is being discarded in large quantities every day. If there were a circumstance where, with consent of the mother, having been obtained after the abortion, not in any way as an inspiration to carry it forward, the abortion could ultimately help somebody. Which of those two choices is more ethical — discard all the tissue or use a small part?" he asked.

"Can you, in fact, in some circumstances, even with actions that you consider immoral, derive something from it that might actually be moral and beneficial? That’s the horns of the dilemma upon which I have been resting here for these 12 years as NIH director, trying to oversee human fetal tissue research, which is something that I have to make decisions about," he continued.

Neither Collins nor Moore returned the Daily Wire's requests for comment regarding the interview and its subject matter.

NIH Director Francis Collins told Anthony Fauci there needs to be a 'quick and devastating' takedown of anti-lockdown declaration by 'fringe' Harvard, Stanford, Oxford epidemiologists: Emails



Newly exposed emails show outgoing National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins commanding Dr. Anthony Fauci to carry out a "quick and devastating" takedown of a statement by public health experts calling for "focused protection" of the most vulnerable populations. Emails show that Fauci would indeed attack the declaration.

What is the Great Barrington Declaration?

Infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists authored the Great Barrington Declaration, a document that argues against COVID-19 lockdowns that was released on Oct. 4, 2020.

"Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health," the declaration stated. "Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed."

"As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls," the epidemiologists wrote. "We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity."

More than 15,000 medical and public health scientists have allegedly signed the Great Barrington Declaration and over 45,000 medical practitioners have endorsed the document. The health advice in the Great Barrington Declaration was the complete opposite of what top U.S. public officials espoused.

A 'quick and devastating' takedown is ordered

Four days after the Great Barrington Declaration was released, Collins instructed Fauci and Clifford Lane — the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Deputy Director for Clinical Research and Special Projects — to engage in a "takedown" of the anti-lockdown declaration, according to emails.

The House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis obtained and released emails between the public health officials.

"This proposal from three fringe epidemiologists who met with the Secretary seems to be getting a lot of attention — and even a co-signature from Nobel Prize winner Mike Leavitt at Stanford," Collins wrote in an email sent on Oct. 8, 2020.

"There needs to be a quick and devastating takedown of its premises,” Collins wrote in reference to the Great Barrington Declaration.

In new FOIA email dump, NIH Director Collins emailed Fauci to urge a \u201cquick and devastating\u201d propaganda takedown of the Great Barrington Declaration, in which @MartinKulldorff @DrJBhattacharya and @SunetraGupta urged an end to COVID lockdowns and mandates.\nhttps://coronavirus.house.gov/sites/democrats.coronavirus.house.gov/files/2020.10.13%20FOIA-00001024.pdf\u00a0\u2026pic.twitter.com/jxIMPetjue
— Michael P Senger (@Michael P Senger) 1639780840

How did Dr. Anthony Fauci respond?

Fauci responded to Collins' direction by promoting a Wired U.K. article with the headline: "There is no 'scientific divide' over herd immunity."

Phil Magness — senior research faculty and interim research and education director at the American Institute for Economic Research – noted that the Wired U.K. article from October 2020 stated that the Great Barrington Declaration is irrelevant because lockdowns are in the "past."

The Fauci-endorsed Wired article is noteworthy for having one of the single worst hot-takes of the entire pandemic. It declared in October 2020 that the GBD should be ignored, because lockdowns were a thing of the past and would not be returning! \n\nhttps://www.wired.co.uk/article/great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-scientific-divide\u00a0\u2026pic.twitter.com/U3LtPK97zc
— Phil Magness (@Phil Magness) 1639844416

Fauci then shared an article from progressive The Nation titled: "Focused Protection, Herd Immunity, and Other Deadly Delusions."

"But Kulldorff, Bhattacharya, and Gupta’s plan, enshrined as the Great Barrington Declaration unveiled at the American Institute for Economic Research this week, is not the way forward," the article read. "If we’re going to build toward a new politics of care, it will be by relying on progressive principles of justice and equality—not some notion of the survival of the young and the fittest."

Far from a scientific study refuting the GBD, Gonsalves's article is a political op-ed attacking @Jacobin magazine for breaking "solidarity" with other far-left media outlets on lockdowns. Why? Because Jacobin ran an interview with @MartinKulldorff on how lockdowns hurt the poor.pic.twitter.com/0j85WlKiwY
— Phil Magness (@Phil Magness) 1639844418

Gregg Gonsalves — the author of The Nation article — reportedly emailed Collins to "thank" him for speaking out against the Great Barrington Declaration and for "doing it 'undiplomatically.'" Gonsalves also agreed in calling the GBD epidemiologists "fringe."

In the meantime, Gonsalves also gets in contact with Collins to volunteer his services (along with future @CDCDirector Rochelle Walensky) to attack the GBD in the media.\n\nCollins approves, and forwards it to Fauci and a bunch of NIH underlings.pic.twitter.com/UJ2t7C18AA
— Phil Magness (@Phil Magness) 1639844421

Fauci attacked the Great Barrington Declaration during an ABC News appearance on Oct. 15, 2020.

"That declaration has a couple things in it that I think are fooling people, because it says things that are like apple pie and motherhood," Fauci told ABC News. "A, we don't want to shut down the country. I say that all the time. B, we do certainly want to protect the vulnerable."

Fauci sent an email to White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator Deborah Birx on Oct. 16, 2020.

"Over the past week I have come out very strongly publicly against the "Great Barrington Declaration,'" Fauci wrote, adding that he will "connect" with her "later today or over the weekend."

On the morning of the Covid task force meeting, Fauci sends Deborah Birx this email alerting her about the need to oppose the GBD at the meeting. The unredacted part suggests they are preparing to attack @ScottWAtlas, who was perceived as the task force's champion of the GBD.pic.twitter.com/iqYbiTiZxo
— Phil Magness (@Phil Magness) 1639844423

Who are the 'fringe' epidemiologists?

Collins described the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration as "fringe."

The three "fringe" epidemiologists are Martin Kulldorff, Ph.D., an epidemiologist at Harvard University, Sunetra Gupta, Ph.D., an epidemiologist at Oxford University, and Jay Bhattacharya, MD, Ph.D., a professor and public health policy expert at Stanford University.

Bhattacharya reacted to Collins' email by writing on Twitter, "So now I know what it feels like to be the subject of a propaganda attack by my own government. Discussion and engagement would have been a better path."

Kulldorff responded by saying, "A year ago, @NIHDirector Francis Collins asked Fauci to do a 'devastating published take down' of the Great Barrington Declaration. A public debate would have been better. Invitation still open."

Gupta has yet to issue a statement, but she retweeted the above statements made by colleagues.

Dr. Francis Collins attempts to defend his 'takedown'

The House Select Committee on the Coronavirus Crisis said Collins "expressed deep concerns about the herd immunity strategy being advocated by these 'fringe epidemiologists.'"

Collins was asked about the "takedown" during a Fox News interview on Friday, to which he replied, "Well, OK, if it’s that specific. There were people [like] Scott Atlas that said don’t worry about this business of putting on masks or asking people to isolate themselves or stay distanced. Let it rip. Let this virus run through the country until everybody has had it, and we’ll have herd immunity.'"

Atlas — who was an advisor on former President Donald Trump's White House Coronavirus Task Force — does not show up as one of the prominent signatories on the Great Barrington Declaration website.

NIH director: Parents should wear masks at home around unvaccinated kids



National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins advised parents on Tuesday to wear face coverings inside their own homes in order to protect unvaccinated children from contracting COVID-19.

What did he say?

During an appearance on CNN Tuesday morning, the public health expert said the "weird" practice is the "best way" to ensure that kids younger than 12 — who are currently not eligible to get the vaccine — aren't harmed by the Delta variant. Though he admitted that children are generally less affected by the virus and that the evidence indicating the Delta variant is more dangerous is "not as solid" as he wished.

Nevertheless, Collins pushed forward with his recommendations that kids younger than 12 "avoid being in places where they might get infected, which means mask-wearing in schools and at home."

"Parents of unvaccinated kids should be thoughtful about this, and the recommendation is to wear masks there [at home] as well. I know that's uncomfortable, I know it seems weird, but it is the best way to protect your kids," he said.

Has the Delta variant increased the risk for unvaccinated children?NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins answers this… https://t.co/LVfLfj1oge

— New Day (@NewDay) 1627994461.0

What else?

When asked whether any concrete evidence has yet to suggest that the Delta variant is more dangerous to children, Collins offered a mixed response.

"It's clear that this variant is capable of causing serious illness in children. You have heard those stories coming out of Louisiana, pediatric [intensive care units] where there are kids as young as a few months old who are sick from this," Collins said, before acknowledging, "That is rare."

"Certainly younger people are less likely to fall ill," he went on to say. "But anybody who tries to tell you, 'You don't have to worry about it if you're a young healthy person,' there are many counter-examples all around us now."

Later in the interview, Collins noted, "We don't have really enough numbers to be confident, but it certainly tilts the balance in that direction."

Why does it matter?

Fox News reported over the weekend that "out of 503,544 deaths currently reported by the [U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention], just 296 were kids below the age of 12, less than .06%."

Certainly, many parents are fatigued by the draconian restrictions implemented in their communities over the past year, especially as it relates to children who, by in large, are not as affected by the virus.

Given Collins' failure to provide concrete evidence indicating that the Delta variant is more dangerous to children, critics are likely to perceive that he is needlessly stoking fear.

Along those lines, FaithWire editor Tré Goins-Phillips used Collins' own words to argue, "This is not 'uncomfortable' or 'weird,' @NIHDirector, this has crossed the threshold into lunacy."

This is not “uncomfortable” or “weird,” @NIHDirector, this has crossed the threshold into lunacy. https://t.co/GRw8yu4Syw

— Tré Goins-Phillips 😎 🇺🇸 (@tregp) 1628010101.0