'Massaging the Nation's Leading White Supremacist … There's No Detente With Those Positions': Ben Shapiro Says He’ll Make Peace With Tucker Carlson When Carlson ‘Changes His Ideas’

Ben Shapiro will consider a "detente" with Tucker Carlson when the Nazi-adjacent podcast host stops praising communist dictators like Nicolas Maduro, socialist mayors like Zohran Mamdani, and white supremacist influencers like Nick Fuentes, he said Thursday. 

Speaking with Megyn Kelly for a live taping of her show in Jacksonville, Fla.—a full audio recording of which can be accessed here—Shapiro said that, while Carlson was once “a great advocate for many things on the right, particularly on the immigration issue," that’s not the case anymore.

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BEASTMODE: Ben Shapiro Takes Down Tucker Carlson's Defense of Commie Drug Lord Nicolas Maduro: 'Everyone In His Country Is Eating Dog'

"Who gives a shit!" That was Ben Shapiro’s response to Tucker Carlson's argument that Venezuelan dictator Nicolas Maduro has some great qualities, like his opposition to gay marriage.

"Who gives a shit!" Shapiro said. "The guy's a communist dictator. Everyone in his country is eating dog. He's shipping fentanyl to the United States to kill Americans. I don't give a shit whether he's anti-LGBTQ rights. This is the number one thing about Nicolas Maduro? Do you know how far down the list you have to get before you can get to anything remotely recommendable about Nicolas Maduro?"

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The thoroughly unimpressive Mr. Fuentes



Tucker Carlson’s interview with Nick Fuentes was supposed to be explosive. It wasn’t.

Far from normalizing Fuentes or advancing his strange brand of “right-wing” politics, the two-hour conversation exposed him as a shallow, aggrieved figure without the intellect or maturity to lead anything. Carlson didn’t destroy Fuentes with debate. He did something worse: He made him boring.

Fuentes built his notoriety as a young “influencer” who mixes nationalism with online provocation. He’s outspokenly racist, anti-Semitic, and obsessed with pushing the limits of shock. And he’s managed to attract a following among disaffected young men — the “Groypers.”

Fuentes’ interview marks his peak — and his decline. Once the outrage fades, he’ll return to obscurity.

In recent years, Fuentes has tried to rebrand himself as something somewhat more serious. He talks about immigration breaking working families, foreign wars enriching elites, and a culture that mocks masculinity. Those themes resonate because they tap real frustrations that many Americans share.

But Fuentes offers no coherent moral or political vision. Others — better read, more disciplined, and far less toxic — make similar arguments with insight and integrity. The late Charlie Kirk, for example, famously wanted nothing to do with Fuentes and his followers for precisely that reason.

The grudge-filled path

Carlson’s interview focused less on ideas than on Fuentes’ grievances. He recounted his early days as a libertarian campaigning for Ted Cruz in 2015, his shift to Trumpism, and his viral rise after a debate with a leftist opponent. Soon he was clashing with prominent conservatives, especially the Daily Wire’s Ben Shapiro.

According to Fuentes, Shapiro and his allies sabotaged his career and drove him into exile on the “dark web.” At no point does Fuentes wonder whether Shapiro recognized instability and immaturity in him — or simply concluded that he wasn’t worth the investment.

Like many in his Gen Z cohort, Fuentes mistakes online engagement for substance. Without outrage, he has nothing. He’s poorly educated, reads little, and shrugs off legitimate criticism. The result is a young man trapped in perpetual adolescence, angry that the world won’t take him seriously.

Carlson’s indulgence

Carlson tries to humanize Fuentes, appealing to Christian charity and the value of learning from failure. But Fuentes clings to his score-settling. His list of enemies includes not just Shapiro but Charlie Kirk, Joe Kent, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) — and even Carlson himself, though he gets a temporary reprieve for offering the platform.

Carlson also attempts to rationalize Fuentes’ anti-Semitism, giving him space to “clarify.” Fuentes insists he doesn’t hate Jews personally — he just opposes Judaism as a “force against Western civilization.” He repeats conspiracy theories about Jewish control of institutions and denies the Holocaust.

Carlson pushes back, but only mildly. Both men protest that they “don’t hate Jews” and have Jewish friends, as if that were exculpatory. It isn’t. The exchange casts neither in a good light.

Empty provocateurs

The rest of the interview dissolves into incoherence. Fuentes casually praises Joseph Stalin, of all people, before the conversation fizzles. Carlson’s attempt to recast Fuentes as a misunderstood outsider backfires. The result is a portrait of a man whose only real claim to relevance is being disliked — and even that feels undeserved.

Carlson’s indulgence of fringe figures is becoming a pattern. Andrew Tate. Darryl Cooper. Now Fuentes. Each enjoys a sizeable online following built on provocation and grievance. And each, when pressed, collapses into self-pity and incoherence. These men are charlatans and grifters who don’t challenge the establishment; they merely rehearse falsehoods and conspiracy theories to raise their profiles among mostly lonely, disaffected young men.

RELATED:Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, and the war for the conservative soul

Photo by NurPhoto via Getty Images

The decline of two brands

Fuentes’ interview marks his peak — and his decline. Once the outrage fades, he’ll return to obscurity, remembered mostly as a cautionary tale about what happens when empty charisma meets unearned confidence.

Carlson, meanwhile, risks following him down that path. His willingness to platform attention-seekers may boost short-term clicks, but it erodes long-term credibility. Each indulgence costs him a little more trust.

The tragedy isn’t just Fuentes’ wasted potential. It’s the spectacle of one of the right’s most talented communicators lending his megaphone to a man who long ago proved himself unworthy of it.

Leftist Radicals In Office Are Much More Dangerous Than Fringe Radicals On Podcasts

The radicals Democrats label 'right-wing' are on podcasts. The left-wing radicals are in office.

Mainstream Journos Simp for Nazi Twink

Nick Fuentes, the "Nazi twink" influencer who recently told "highbrow Groyper" Tucker Carlson about his love of Joseph Stalin, is quickly becoming the mainstream media's favorite "conservative." Earlier this week, New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg anointed Fuentes as the "successor" to murdered activist Charlie Kirk, and blamed the Republican Party for fueling his rise.

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Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, and the war for the conservative soul



'Tis the season for disputations and theses nailed on doors. Reform movements simmer for years, then a single act draws a bright red line. Last week, one of our most influential platforms chose to give one of the right’s most infamous fiends a mainstream showcase. For many, though, Tucker Carlson’s interview with Nick Fuentes didn’t just cross a line. It obliterated it. Now we have a choice: Either take Fuentes seriously or seriously reconsider anyone who does.

I criticized Carlson’s interview with Fuentes on my show last week. The next day, I defended Tucker’s larger legacy against calls to “cancel” him. After taking a few more days to watch, think, and pray, here’s a fuller accounting — organized as a thread of theses, but shaped into a single argument.

Because if we’re going to have a debate, then let’s have a real one.

How we got here

Fatherlessness in the home and timidity in the pulpit have produced a generation of young men who never learned how to shoulder responsibility — preserve, provide, protect — or to wield authority with Christ-like meekness — power under control.

Anger among young men, especially young white men, over the wreckage handed to them is justified. The right now faces a generational reckoning over decades of failure. Attempts by older leaders to bottle that reckoning will only push exasperated men toward Fuentes and his imitators.

We can keep this coalition together if we hold fast to truth, reject bigotry, and refuse to platform malevolence.

On Nick Fuentes

Fuentes is a malignant satanic force. He speaks the language of slander and accusation. Unless he repents, he offers nothing we need. We can address the real grievances of young men without creating our own Louis Farrakhan.

Mainstreaming Fuentes would splinter our already fraught coalition, poison donors and advertisers, and make us politically impotent.

On Tucker Carlson

Fuentes gained so much oxygen and wreaked so much internal havoc because Carlson chose to do a largely softball interview that amplified him. Tucker owns that choice. If you worry about distractions from the mission, take it up with the person who booked the guest. He could have been talking about Arctic Frost. He chose Nick Fuentes instead.

The tone contrasted sharply with Tucker’s tough interview of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) over Israel. Extending more empathy to Fuentes than to Cruz sends the wrong moral signal and understandably raised suspicions about Tucker’s recent editorial choices.

Also true: Over the last seven years, no one on our side has produced a more important body of work than Tucker Carlson.

On the rules of engagement

A generational reckoning will color outside the lines. Don’t cancel people willing to go there. The last generation’s political strategy failed often enough that we should err on the side of hard reassessment.

But disagreement — even sharp disagreement — is not “cancel culture.” If you want to replace a narrative, expect scrutiny. That’s a reckoning, not a psyop.

On the Heritage Foundation

Kevin Roberts is one of the finest salt-of-the-earth patriots I know, and Heritage under his leadership has fought real anti-Semitism. Reasonable people can critique Heritage’s handling of this moment, but the institution must equip itself for the fights in front of us, not yesterday’s battles. Some in and around Heritage want to rewind the clock to 2005 and used this episode to try.

On the Jewish reaction

Conservative Jewish friends have reasons to feel skittish given history’s lessons. I will oppose anti-Semitism and the mainstreaming of Fuentes and his copycats down to the last molecule.

On who this is really about

I’m not worried about Israel’s ultimate fate. If modern Israel plays a prophetic role, God will protect and preserve it. If not, God will judge it.

No, I’m worried about us — our souls and our movement. No culture descends into “it’s the Jooooos” and comes back stronger.

On what should unite us

As Charlie Kirk said, “Islam is not compatible with Western civilization.” People who fixate more on Jews and Israel than on the threat from political Islam reveal their priorities.

Criticizing Israeli policy does not equal anti-Semitism; I criticized Israeli COVID policy at the time. We may even need more policy criticism to sustain the Arab realignment President Trump helped forge. Your prophetic view of Israel is irrelevant. Without a Jewish state, Islam would focus all its energy on Christendom — as it did for the first 1,300 years of its existence. From a foreign-policy standpoint, a Jewish state functions as a strategic buffer between Islam and the West.

On false choices and narratives

October 7 followed the neoconservative script: Israel granted more “agency” to the so-called Palestinians as a proto-two-state solution. The Palestinians then elevated Hamas, the architects of October 7, right on Israel’s doorstep. Some on our side now demand more of the same and unknowingly converge with the neocons they denounce.

People who were dead wrong about the risks of striking Iran earlier this year should come clean, as Vice President JD Vance said recently. Their silence exposes them.

Yes, some of the Tucker-Fuentes noise is a pre-emptive proxy fight over the 2028 presidential election, given Tucker’s friendship with Vance. We cannot afford to let 2028 maneuvering fracture the coalition before the midterms. Lose the midterms and much of the Trump agenda stalls and 2028 gets much harder.

It’s too early for primary shenanigans.

On the fallout

If Tucker had dropped that interview a year from now, Democrats would have used it as a midterm wrecking ball. They’d spend untold sums to make Fuentes the face of the right. It would devastate us.

RELATED:Zohran Mamdani becomes first openly socialist mayor of New York City

Photo by Angela Weiss/Getty Images

On the future

None of this feels random. After Charlie Kirk’s martyrdom, the dam broke. I can attest he worked to keep Fuentes and the Groypers on the margins. A month before he died, he invited me into a one-on-one Signal chat to build a strategy to keep malignant forces from gaining a foothold in our movement. He believed God would never bless their darkness and that it would destroy us spiritually and politically.

Now we see: our apostolic leader murdered, Democrats embracing Islamist politics through Zohran Mamdani, and a sudden internal split over Fuentes. Consider it a spiritual counterattack to the revival seeds we saw at Charlie’s memorial.

Pat Buchanan had insights. Bill Buckley had insights. Both had blind spots. Trump, perhaps unintentionally, kept the best of Buchanan’s realism without the worst. We can keep this coalition together if we do the same: Hold fast to truth, reject bigotry, and refuse to platform malevolence.

Come, let us reason together.

‘I Made A Mistake’: Heritage Foundation President Apologizes to Staff for Video Refusal to Cancel Tucker Carlson and Throws Shade at Former Chief of Staff

"I made a mistake and I let you down and I let down this institution. Period. Full Stop," Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts told the staff of the conservative think tank on Wednesday, a week after he posted a video decrying a "venomous" coalition attacking the right-wing podcast host Tucker Carlson—and declaring the Heritage Foundation would always defend him against "the slander of bad actors who serve someone else’s agenda."

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The Attacks On Heritage And Kevin Roberts Are Really About Foreign Policy And J.D. Vance

Genuine concern about antisemitism on the right is being hijacked by neocons to attack J.D. Vance in hopes of re-taking control of the GOP.

Coalition for Jewish Values Severs Ties With Heritage Foundation Over President Kevin Roberts’s Defense of Tucker Carlson

The Coalition for Jewish Values (CJV) cut ties with the Heritage Foundation's National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism (NTFCA) on Tuesday morning, saying in a letter shared with the Washington Free Beacon that the group "cannot grant legitimacy to an effort to combat antisemitism operated by the Heritage Foundation while Heritage is validating antisemitism and giving it a platform."

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Heritage Foundation President: 'Don't Cancel Nick Fuentes,' as Stalin Fan Tells Jews to ‘Get The F— Out of America’

Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts said conservatives should not be "canceling" Nick Fuentes, the 27-year-old Hitler and Stalin supporter who said Wednesday that Jews who can’t get behind his world view should "get the fuck out of America and go to Israel."

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